Brood Lord

Apparently the Gaurdian has an upgrade....now with 350 hp, dishing out 23 damage (plus broodling) a hit at 8 range.
I just hope they don't raise the price anymore, since as it stands they cost 200/200 if you count the price of the initial muta.

 

This is no upgrade to the Guardin. It is a replacement, so the cost stays roughly the same. -While the unit is buffed, compared the the Guardian.-

 

Like I said before I just think it's a swarm guardian with a face lift.

 

Considering how much more powerful the brood lord is, it had better cost more.

I'm a bit disappointed the hp inflated so much while the damage remained the same.

 

It has 9 range, by the way.

 

It's not a replacement. It's a name change and remodel. That's it.

 

Well, considering the quite dramatic changes in stats, you can barely compare them anymore. I mean, do you think that the Nighthawk is the same as the Nomad?

 

I think that the nighthawk has gone far from what the Nomad was. Because it got a new image, then new abilities,and I'm assuming new stats. All the Brood Lords sounds like is taking the swarm guardian stronger and maybe look cooler. Add some new abilities and I'll consider it more then just some plastic surgery done.

 

What I mean is given the previous stats I think it was overpriced, and if the damage output stays the same but the price goes up I'll be ticked. Guardians are for dishing out damage, not tanking.

 

How can you barely compare them? Aesthetics aside, all that's happened, and I literally mean 'all' in the full sense of the word, is that it's gotten an extra hundred and fifty odd health. How is that barely comparable? And if it is, then the, say, Ultralisk is obviously a brand new unit in StarCraft2, as it's undergone far greater changes than the Swarm Guardian has, so is barely comparable to the original unit, right?

And the Nighthawk is the Nomad. It's just undergone changes. Seriously, do you think the current Mothership is a new unit compared to the original Mothership? Or the current Ghost in a new unit compared to the original Ghost? Of course not. All they've done is change the stats, and it's not as though that has anything to do with the Brood Lord itself, as it's obviously all been done for balance.

Lastly, if they gave it the extra health without changing the aesthetics, would you consider it to be a new unit? What about if they renamed it just as the 'Guardian', and redid its model, just as they did for the Lurker and Infester?

 

Itza, just read what I said, please. The Brood Lord changes this: model, hp, range of attack and ability -the Broodlings-. Only the armor and speed stays about the same. In my opinion, those are enough changes to call it a new unit altogether.

If you think that 4 out of 6 primary unit characteristics is to little to make a new unit, then you completely miss the point. If these, erm, rules apply, then most units just get minor changes instead of revamps. Then you could also say that the Immortal is just the Dragoon. Or that the Colossus is just a Reaver. They have about the same amount of changes.

To add to that, the Brood Lord now also is able to attack at a closer range then the Guardian ever could. The Broodlings can melee attack, and the Brood Lord needs to stay close for that. With 150 extra hp, it can afford that. This changes the role of the unit. It used to be only long range siege, now it can even tank if you really need to. -and have some air support, obviously-

Further, Ekulio compared it to the Guardian, not the SWARM Guardian. So even more of a difference.

 

Swarm guardians had broodlings, that's not an added ability.

 

The Guardian had no Broodlings.

Just read what it says... The regular Guardian is the subject, not the freaking Swarm Guardian. Is it really that hard to understand? Or am I the only one who noticed the first name change? :s

 

@ Aurora. You're not getting it. No-one's saying's it is the Guardian from StarCraft1. It's not. What people are saying is that this is not a new unit, it's a pre-existing unit with some minor tweaks and a makeover.

Here's what they've actually done, using a different unit as an example just so you can get the point;

They've taken the Stalker, made some changes for balance, just as they've been doing since the Stalker was first conceived, renamed it the 'Stealther' and painted it red.

Now I'll ask you, have they really replaced the Stalker and added a new unit or have they just made some minor tweaks to the visuals and balance?

Seriously, if the Brood Lord is a new unit that replaced the Swarm Guardian, the Void Ray's a new unit that replaced the Warp Ray. Seriously, if a name change, design change and balancing work equates to a replacement to the original unit, then the Void Ray is honestly a brand new unit. On top of that, according to you, due to the changes made it's also 'barely comparable' to the original Warp Ray.

As for needing to attack at a closer range, what the crap are you smoking? It doesn't attack at a closer range, it attacks at a further range. You said yourself that they increased it. And they need to stay close because the useless cannon fodder that they're propelling half-way across the map is melee ranged? I have no clue what you're on about here.

And what lead you to believe that the Swarm Guardian isn't the subject? Did you even read the Q&A Batch? He directly states that this is a new unit and serves as a replacement to the Swarm Guardian. Even Ekuilo's referring to the Swarm Guardian. He just called it a Guardian, which was inevitable with such a name like 'Swarm Guardian' anyway I mean if people shorten Hydralisk to Hydra and so forth who's going to be bothered always saying 'Swarm', because it's freaking synonymous with 'Swarm Guardian' anyway.

 

whatever man. I'm not going to make a 3 page discussion out of a simple misunderstanding from my side. However, is it really that hard to fully name a unit? The Hydralisk is over a decade old, let them shorten the name. I just think that a new -whatever you want to call it- unit should be spoken of with the full name. I see nobody just saying Ray, or Hawk or anything. I mean, come on. The beta is yet to be released, and we are already nicknaming stuff.

As for the Broodlings, they only live for a short period. You should be close to the enemy to take the full advantage out of them. If you want to, that is. It -the main unit- is still an artillery role unit, I just said that it COULD tank if you really needed to. Also, the range increase has little effect on the game as a whole. The Carrier and Missile towers also get increased range. -and damage-

Further, you just said about the batch: --He directly states that this is a new unit and serves as a replacement to the Swarm Guardian.-- I think I have made my point now. Even if it might not be entirely valid. Just try to prove now that what I said makes no sense. -wink-

 

Dude, of course they're going to shorten it. It's like if the named the Zergling the 'Swarm Zergling' or the Ultralisk the 'Gargantuan Ultralisk'. You think people are going to bother typing and saying it each time when there's nothing to actually distinguish it from?

And I still completely miss what you're saying about the Broodlings. It doesn't have to be close to anything because of the Broodlings. Just in case you didn't know, they spawn at the attacked unit, not underneath the Guardian. And you're the one saying that all the changes are making it different, so don't dis the additional range too quick. Besides, if that extra range is enough to still out-range towers, it'll make a massive difference to gameplay.

I have no clue what you're on about in the last bit. What's the point you've just made?

 

Actually Aurora, I was comparing it to the swarm guardian. I just shortened it cause I was lazy.

And guys, who cares whether it's a "new unit" or just a remodel? Stop arguing over linguistics. It's pointless. What I was hoping we'd be able to discuss is whether or not we like the changes from the swarm guardian.

I kinda feel like if they're gonna buff the hp they should buff the attack a lot more. To compare, the Thor right now is basically filling the role of a heavy goliath. Powerful AA and decent ground attack, but with hugely buffed damage and HP. Now imagine if they made it have all that HP but gave it the attack of an old goliath, and still charged the full thor price. Wouldn't you be ticked? Now they've done that with the gaurdian: hp jacked way up (and cost probably) but the attack has been left almost the same.
I'm not happy.

 

well I am quite happy to see a much more resilient Guardian, but I think there is more problem with the Thor itself than the Brook Lord. The Thor itself should not even exist ...

 

That's half my point. There aren't any proper changes, they're minor tweaks. It's like talking about the changes of the Stalker when it was given a larger bonus against Armoured units.

As for what you said about the change of stats, most likely it was done for balance. Not only does what you say only hold if it was already perfectly balanced, but in all actuality you're complaining that it's been buffed, and the comparison you've given with the Thor is almost the opposite. The Guardian's been given more health, making it better, and you're comparing it to the Thor being given less damage, making it worse. And on top of that, they're not going to charge you for something with three hundred and fifty health and fifty damage if it only deals twenty five. An increase in cost, if there even is one, would compensate for the health, and would not, by any means, result in its damage needing to be buffed.

 

I think he meant the old swarm guardian sucked for its cost, so hopefully even with the HP boost its price was not raised. I certainly like the new name; brood lord fits so much better then swarm guardian. One idea I had for a stat change would be to lower its damage but increase its rate of fire, this way it'll be able to spawn broodlings in greater masses. Blizzard did mention that broodlings have a very brief expiration timer and assuming that the brood lord's attack rate is roughly the same as the starcraft 1 guardian, I don't think the broodlings would make much of a difference really. However, if the brood lord is able to produce massive amounts of 'em they could do some serious damage and disorganize the enemy pretty well. Whether a good or bad change, I think it would be an interesting role for the brood lord and a neat mechanic for the zerg in general that emphasizes further on their tenacious play style. Good or bad idea?