Blizzard Wins $6 Million Lawsuit US district court rules against WoW Glider bot. http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/915/915660p1.html
Does this not seem outrageous? If 100,000 copies were sold for $25, that's only 2.5 million. Why the hell was the settlement $6 million? That's way overboard. If anything Glider helped sell the game by making it accessible even though they exploited it. I could see their being fined 2-3 million but not 6.
Well what they did was (argueably since appeal is still open) illegal so it only makes sense that they be completly wiped out financially as opposed to just getting a slap on the wrist. It also compensates for all the accounts that blizzard would have had to ban and also all the rescources they would have had to commit to cover legal costs and costs for secruity. Its also a warning to other illegal software companies that penalties will greatly outweigh the gains. Though it is slightly worrying the amount of power the ruling gives gaming companies in regardes to user agreement infringement. Considering the ruling was that you are licenced WoW as opposed to directly owning it.
How can players enjoy a game where some scripts can do better than them? When I play SC or CS with or against bots/AI opponents, I can clearly recognise them, and use them only if I have no choice, but using bots to play instead of you, and in a game which main point is precisely to enable as much people as possible to play together, Wow... wow players are really a strange and distinct part of the gaming community... Do they use bots as well when they are with their girlfriends? When they watch TV? When they play some sport with friends? What a strange thinking... Do you mean that if some hacker releases some hack for free, that could ruin the game, you think that Blizzard couldn't sue them just because the hack is free? This amount of money has been evaluated on more than on how many copies of this piece of software have been sold. This tool is clearly forbidden and ruined the game, which is the business of this company. Stupidest opinion ever. So the hackers who designed wallhack and co for CS, you think they actually should get money as well this way from Valve, because they "helped sell the game to retards"? As you say: I agree on this point though: I don't know any video game that needs people who need to buy some software to play instead of them to a video game they purchased, taking in addition the risk of being banned of this game they bought. Those buyers should seriously consider doing something more useful with their money, and that "company" who released that software should seriously consider working on something more useful to the world in my opinion. The company has just protected itself with this lawsuit.
It's not playing, it's business. Sure there may be many different people using bots, but plenty would use them to farm in-game gold, items, w/e in order to sell them for real money. The "company" in question probably included.
The 2.5 is the obvious repaying, and the 3.5 is the actual fine, and I see nothing wrong with that. If you rob a bank, you don't just repay the money and get told off. The primary aim of laws is not to punish, but to deter. What deters? Huge fines and serious punishment.
Oh, from this point of view yes, the comment makes sense then. I was just referring to legit people, but I always forget not everybody is legit in this world... :arghh:
Yeah, just commenting on what Jissé said earlier, bots aren't used to play the game for them, bots are used to do all the things that achieve the feeling of personal gain. You won't find bots raiding or in PVP, but you will find them levelling, grinding rep and farming gold. I seriously don't get it though. I mean, what's the point of getting to level 70 if you're not even the one who's done it? What's the point of becoming Exalted with some faction if a program's done it for you? What's the point in getting enough gold for your epic flying mount or whatever if you weren't even involved? Where's the sense of achievement? The sense of accomplishment? It's just stupid. Also, yeah. I hope it was early in the morning when you wrote that, Jon. Doesn't seem like you really thought that one through as much as you usually do.
No, I think that's a perfectly valid argument. Were they in the wrong? Yes. Should they be fined? Yes. Should they be fined more than they made? Yes. But they shouldn't be fined $6 million. That's too generous of an award without further support. I assume there's good reason for the award being so high, but not based off of the number of copies of the bot sold. There's a difference between punishment and just plain bankruptcy. In addition the case stated that Glide admitted its wrongdoing and agreed to pay. And so it insinuated that $6 million was a smaller sum than what was expected. How is that so? And for the record, I expect members to not call other opinions "stupid." You guys know better than that.
i agree that 5 million would have been better, but at least 4.5. why? cause these people are proffesional BotMakers, and these time stands for all the other Bots they couldnt fine
I don't reckon it's too much at all. It actually seems pretty light for what they did. They've developed software which blatantly contradicts Blizzard's policies, produced, distributed it on a large scale, and profited from it, while the consumers were then able to both farm and sell gold. That's a pretty severe offence. It's not even as though they just broke the policy or anything, they then allowed a hundred thousand users to also break the policy, and all for their personal gain. Two to three million would only barely cover their profits. And so what if they admitted to their wrongdoing? They still consciously developed this software in the first place which they knew weren't legal. I know pleading guilty is supposed to help lower the charges, but it's not as though it automatically drop the charges to their minimum. Also, as others have said, it also acts as a deterrent. If companies see them getting off fairly easily, then they're not going to fear the consequences. If they see Blizzard coming down hard on companies like these, then they're definitely going to be put off. It's kinda like how the police treat shoplifters when they get caught. No-one wants to risk going through that. I'm surprised you think six million is simply too much. They coulda been given a heck of a lot more for what they did.
I think it's impossible to define what should be the exact absolute fair fine. What criterias would you consider to estimate that? Personnally, I think the main criteria is how much the other gamers, legit, have been spoiled, directly and indirectly, of that abusive system. The second criteria is the harm caused somehow to the Blizzard image, saying like "you can play their games easier with our tools", saying that either their products are too hard for you, or that you shouldn't waste your time playing them, just getting the accomplishments, while the other are morons spending all their evenings on that, something like that, altering a negative way their (Blizzard's) work on the image of the product. Another criteria I would consider is the possibility such tool also alters the game mechanics directly, in order to enable their bots to be more efficient and/or more simple to program (I don't know how that piece of software works), and then be considered as direct cheating. The problem is that it implies much more than few virtual objects for sale on Ebay: as the game is a MMO, anything altering the game alters basically the experience of all the players... The only person(s) who can really discuss that is(are) the guy(s) who suggested / voted / approved that fine (I don't know how this kind of lawsuit really works in this country).
We have a lot of juges here. Everyone seems to know their laws good enought to decide how much they should be fined. GG Blizzard
The point of the lawsuit was not to define the amount of the penalty, it was to define the legality of breaching the EULA defined by the publisher. Technically creating bots is not illegal. Nor is selling the bot. Since Blizzard did not directly license the software that runs the bot, they do not own it. The issue here is that Glide created a bot that broke the EULA agreement. The act of creating the bot is not illegal or a breach of the EULA itself. Furthermore, the company sold the bot and probably did not specify its use. The breach of the EULA rests on the user, not the company that created the bot. Was creating the bot wrong? Yes. But was it illegal? No. That's why I don't see where this gigantic award comes from. Certainly there are reasons to argue that it should be much greater, but there are also reasons to argue that it should be less. I happen to think the penalty should be less because this issue really isn't about money. It's about the breach of the EULA. There is no way that Blizzard sustained "damages" in the millions because of the bot. They may have had to pay to try to stem the tide of breaches of EULA because of the bot, but other than that, if anything, Blizzard benefited from increased use of their platform. Furthermore, since Blizzard does not own the creation of the bot, I don't see why they're entitled to the profits. If someone creates a guide to playing the game or reports on how to play the game, should their profits belong to Blizzard? No. They're providing a service outside the what Blizzard provides. Based on rulings like this it could be argued that a player is breaching the EULA by providing cheats to the game. Companies like GameShark could easily be sued for breaching EULA agreements. I think this kind of ruling is very dangerous because of the precedence it sets. This means that Blizzard can pursue any third-party software developer that decides to code for their games. Do you all want programs like StealthBot, BWChart, etc, taken offline? That's what this ruling could do.
I have no problem with that personnally. If someday I am able to complete the development of a game, I would be annoyed that some unknown service designs some software that alters the game the way it is, without any warning nor agreement or whatever. So we spend years and millions of bucks to make something we like, we are proud to release, and some sucker comes from nowhere to change that, stating "hey man, that's not illegal!". Oh that's so great, thank you for your unsolicited help... It's their games, the users just buy the right to use it the way they define, not the right to do whatever they want with it. It's because of this kind of thinking that the contract between the users and the publishers become longer and more detailed after every releases. If a tool can be somehow of any help or interest for the developers, I am sure a partnership can be done without problem. The fact that that Glide didn't offer any kind of agreement to the publisher, or just notify them, clearly shows the point of their business to me: it is not related at all into enhancing the gaming experience or whatever, but just to parasite the business of another, more creative company.
Exactly. By buying a game you basically rent it. Jon, how is creating guides and giving tips similar to using a game with an unofficial third-party program in a way that overthrows the whole point/economy/fun of the game?
Well with many games these days it's just an infinite rent or loan of the game you are getting, you're not even purchasing the game at all.
