Base Rush

Terran is so OP in that there's no way zerg or protoss can win against Terran if it comes to base rush... unless you already had masses of air units, Terran will just go somewhere else like on island and make masses of turrets. and it's pretty much gg...
My last game, on Scrap Station, I nydus wormed into his base, when he attacked me with MMM and siege tank. He was able to run his CC into the island (because he had two) and since I didn't have any mutas and didn't research drop on overlord, there was no way to reach his base and he just strolled around with MMM and siege tank until he destroyed all my bases... isn't that really gay?

 

Why it gg when you got him to retreat to a island? From the sounds of it its more of a issue of dealing with the mmm ball. If you got your foe stuck on a island, exapand rapidly and build a large airforce and broodlord his antiair to death.

If your having issues keeping alive against a huge killer army thats got no reforcment coming, consider burrowing drones and infestors.

 

You could have nydus wormed to the island... not only to send your army there, but also some drones to rebuild your base there.

 

but he killed all my bases... and i killed all his
so i couldn't make more army except make the drones run around and make hatcheries at the random places, while he was safe in his own island, teching up to factory, starport, etc.

 

Then you should have nydus wormed to the island before he destroyed your base. He had the foresight to do so, while you did not, so of course he is going to be at a large advantage.

 

I've always been of the mind that unless you have your opponent securely under your thumb, not building air units is tantamount to digging your own grave. Mutalisks don't stand up terribly well against MMM, but pair em with Brood Lords and use Overlords to drop Banelings amidst the chaos and you would have destroyed him.

Slightly OT, but does anyone else find it odd that we're getting a baseless "Terran is OP" argument (more of a rant really) from someone who's supposedly in Platinum League?

 

I understand your plight by playing zerg, but as a Protoss i fear zerg the most to be honest. What I really hate the most is mutalisks...everygame where zerg can get these up early and in decent numbers the game completely shifts to their terms. Even if he has a large bio ball, it cant leave his base if he knows your mutas are just hovering waiting to strike any mineral line. Yes he can turret in build vikings etc, but that cost minerals for a counter that wont directly enhance his MMM force. With mutas and proper microing zerg players can make u tear your hair out, control the map, dictate the fights, and ultimatly outexpand their enemy. If your a zerg player not harrassing with mutas you are not using the race to its potential. Even if your strat/Build order dictates a ground heavy force, I think most zerg players would agree that you can work Mutas into the build even in small/,medium numbers to harrass keep your enemy off balance

 

If he masses mutas, just mass a biomass with enough marines, upgrade them and stim your way through his base. Air is way too expensive to be the main army.

 

The game wasn't far enough for me to mass mutas tho. I was focusing on my expansion and hydras. I was making spire when I hit them through nydus and they hit me with MMM and siege.

 

Part of the game is preparing for things like that in advance. Even if it wasn't late enough to mass mutas, you should still have gotten ventricle sacs by then.

 

the key here is that terran has the ability to fly away and yes they do, but you have a nydus worm which means you army can go anywhere on the map instantly also creep is awesome, no waiting. and protoss well we have warp ins. basically every race is different and playing to your advantage is the key in starcraft two, he figured he could simply overwhelm you and run his base away, and evidently he could, which means that as a zerg you must be more conservative with all in base racing, that is all. play to your strengths and defend your weaknesses.

 

Actually, yes it was. The Nydus Network is on the same tech level as the Spire, meaning you could have started morphing both structures at the same time. So, If you had the minerals and gas to pump out Hydralisks and spawn Nydus Worms, then you should have had enough to drop a Spire as well.

 

What happened was a standard base trade that he got the better end of. You sent your army and destroyed his base while he did the same to yours.

The reason you lost that exchange probably filters down to two things:
1) your expansions. A good zerg player will expand more than players of the other two races due to the hatchery being cheaper and the simple fact that more hatcheries means more production potential. If you had more expansions at the time then you would have been able to produce units while he was spending time flying his base to the island.

and

2) Your use of your army during the time period where he was stuck on the island. You should have done everything you could have to take out his army. Once that was done, you would have been free to expand all over the map while he is stuck 1-basing for the rest of the game. Tech to brood lords(or anything you want really since your larvae supply would be so big that you could instantly make an army to suit your needs) and take his base out from a safe distance.

So thats basically it, he didn't cheat.... you just didn't exploit any of the advantages that he handed to you.

Oh, and not getting air at all at that point is sort of an issue. Perhaps not so much that you need to have air units at all times (though they do come in handy) but that you need to have the capacity to make air units.

 

To respond to your initial question, I personally think Terran buildings shouldn't count for win/loss purposes if they are in the air.

I.e. if the only buildings a Terran player has left are floating, they lose.

That won't necessarily stop Terrans from running to an island in "base rush" scenarios, but it would force them to have at least 1 building on the ground at all times.

 

@ Khayman,

If that is the case, then the buildings would need a different "perk"

Protoss buildings need pylons, but have shields and do not take up a worker during production, also cannot be canceled by killing said worker.

Zerg buildings mostly need creep, but they regenerate and make those little ankle-biters when they are destroyed

Terran buildings burn and die, require workers that can be killed and require add-ons to build units, but they can be repaired (for money) and can fly.


So in this case if you were to make flying buildings turn into units, you would need to replace the perk of possible escape with something else that is valuable and unique.

 

No, they wouldn't need a different perk.

I feel confident in asserting that Blizzard never intended the mobility feature of Terran buildings to be used to hide/render inaccessible their last structures while engaging in hit-and-run guerrila tactics.

Most of the time this isn't an issue, since if the terran player is reduced to that point their opponent most likely will eventually be able to produce what they need to go out and hunt down the last remaining floating buildings.

Other, intended aspects of Terran's ability to float off buildings would be rarely and minimally impacted, if at all, especially with careful implementation of a "land-or-lose" script, perhaps with a grace period similar to the reveal script (a good example of my assertion imo).

I view this as an issue similar to that of the draw scenario discussed a few months ago.

 

You haven't thought it through though. What you are suggesting will give a loss to a Terran that loses his last supply depot one second before he lands his whole base at an island. It would even give a loss to a Terran that floats his last grounded building.

Yes, Terran players could work around it to make sure they don't lose, but it's still real stupid to have to walk that thin line between staying in the game and losing. And what about the newbies that don't know those rules?

 

Actually it appears it is you hasn't really thought it through and either fully read or comprehended my post, since I covered the exact situation you first described.

And you lost all credibility with me by making the "what about newbies who don't know the rules" argument.

 

It's still stupid to walk that thin line of losing, even with some sort of "grace period". If you give a 30 second grace period, a Terran would still get a loss if he loses his last supply depot 31 seconds before he lands his CC at an island.

And what about the newbies who don't know the rules? Sure you can have warning signs or whatever, but what if they think it's just the reveal thing and don't read it carefully? Or they are distracted by microing their last units? Or distracted by something in real life? Unclear and arbitrary rules should NEVER hand out a loss.

 

I hate to say it, but I am in agreement that it would be a bad idea for terran buildings not to count while flying.

Basically as it stands there is a slight potential for abuse IE base trading and flying away with the your base. However, base trading in general is a breakdown in tactics. So in a situation that you shouldn't be in you have an advantage with terran? Im ok with that. However, the thing that makes terrans interesting is the fact that they are the only race able to completely relocate. Ok, that's ONE of the things that make terran interesting.

Changing resource nodes at the beginning of a game is viable (to a degree) as terran whereas the other two races simply cant. Providing a negative for having all your buildings flying, even if it IS only a 30 second counter, or pretty much anything will cut into that versatility, while providing no reason for existence.

I could understand it if the buildings packed up onto dropships and BECAME for all intents and purposes "units" but they simply lift and fly (very very very sloooowly) to a new location. It would not make any sense for them to no longer count as a building to determine victory.