So this will perhaps be my only chance to actually post a broodwar related topic on the sc2 forum. So I will start this thread with the question.... Will we see the old game with the updated graphics as a sort of bonus package to any expansion, or will some die hard broodwar fan be reconstructing a carbon copy of sc broodwar via the editor? And If it is going to be copied and or transfered to the modern graphics, I officially know the imbalance issues that have been holding the game back from being what it could have been... It begins with the notion that starcraft broodwar is the most balanced RTS out there. While I may argue it's kind of the only RTS out there of its unique design, I will definitely give it the benefit of the doubt, in fact, I will even consider that the game is perhaps so balanced, that the smallest details of obscurity are there for a reason. When I believe this as fact, I find that there is actually an unfair disadvantage for the zerg using this train of thought. Two of these minute obscurities can be observed of the terran and the protoss. -In a Terran vs. Protoss match up, you may often see a terran player float a barracks over top of a marine while the marine is on a ramp. This prevents the marine from being capable of being targeted which buys valuable macro time for the terran. Since a barrack has so much health and can be repaired, this also helps. A marine on a ramp also has a small chance to not be hit by missile since it has the high ground, and i'm also told that the dragoon will sometimes get lucky and attack the marine, but it will also target the barracks sometimes as well, diverting the dragoons fire. This is actually an effective way to buy the terran player an opportunity to focus on macro. -In either a zvp a protoss player doing the standard b.o., which is a proxied pylon at natural, in to a fast forge, will then warp in two photon cannons. If the zerg player was doing an early zergling attack and the photon cannons are still warping in, the protoss player will bring down a hand full of probes to place in front of those cannons. The zerglings recognize the warping photon cannons as hostile, and will mindlessly go after the cannons, running around like chickens with their heads cut off, while taking hits for a short period of time from the probes, which actually end up killing a few. But because you had to target the probes individually, it definitely puts the probes on a level of fighting that is more equivalent to the zergling, and soon after the cannons get done and get off a few more kills. What I have realized is that these two obscure details, of cannon blocking with probes, and marine covering with barracks on ramp, are actually a familiar motif when you examine the design of zerg. Zerg have an overlord, similar to the way a barrack floats, and zerg have a defensive structure that is more relative to the cannon. If fact, I believe that a creep colony mutated in to a sunk will produce in about the exact same time of a photon cannon if not faster. Because of this, I know that a creep colony that is mutating should definitely be recognized as a hostile structure, just like a warping in photon cannon. You might ask... how does that change or have anything to do with gameplay balance, and here is the perfect example. Lets say you are doing a zerg vs protoss match up on the map Python. Protoss ends up being right next to you and he proxies a pylon out at natural and then makes two gateways for a hard zealot push. How was zerg suppose to react to this? Expanding at natural is definitely not an option, but neither is making a hatchery in your base an option as well... in order to defend it, you would have to get sunks up asap, and perhaps the only thing you could do for a fighting chance later is get gas at an earlier point in time. However, as soon as the protoss player has caused you to go defense, he will quickly make a nexus at the natural expansion. But if the creep colony was actually recognized as a hostile unit, you would be able to play zerg as it was originally intended to be played for this very situation. First you would make hatchery near your ramp, and then get gas sometime soon after. You would then place a drone underneath your overlord at your ramp and then be capable of holding position with that drone because it is in the same group as the overlord, which is capable of holding position. (Another interesting obscurity). As soon as the hatchery gets done... you would throw up a creep colony behind the drone. Have you ever wondered why zerg was capable of making a creep colony before a spawning pool? It definitely wasn't to spread the creep.... there is actually perfectly good reason why you can make creep before pool. With the drone covered by overlord in held position, and a mutating creep colony behind the drone, the zealot is going to recognize the creep colony as a hostile unit and will try to attack the creep colony. However, the zealot will not be able to attack the drone because it is covered by the overlord. This makes perfect sense, allowing the zerg to still keep up economically with the protoss, since the protoss has been pumping probes out of his nexus and not having had to sacrifice any workers for buildings.... The zerg wouldn't even have to make a pool yet at this time, because this tactic would be able to prevent any bullying zealots to get through. So now you would be able to make an evolution chamber before making a spawning pool, because remember, we got gas early and there should be a point to it.... Because the protoss chose not to make forge first, the counter with the zerg is to get evolution chamber early, logically. So you would then research the missile upgrade quite early, and get a spawning pool. Because this game is rock paper scissors, the protoss player could actually try a dragoon rush, which might actually work.... But this actually gives a purpose for even conceiving a dragoon rush against zerg. But even though the zerg is now just keeping up economically with a 1 base protoss, and may have the early upgrade edge. Economically, the zerg is still going to fall behind when the protoss player throws up the nexus at natural, in to a forge. The next point of imbalance comes down to what people have said about starcarft all along. That if there is any imbalance in the game, it is due to the map. There should be, near the ramp on all maps, a single vespene gas to mine from. This way, that fast hatch near ramp can start mining from gas pretty early. This makes perfect sense because zerg relies on their gas units to win games, while the protoss and terran rely more on their basic army to win games. The marines are versatile and have medics. The zealots have shields. But the zerg player doesn't want to make army in order to keep up economically in the first place. That is the main point. Zerg want as much gas power per larvae produced as possible. So these are the two changes that I believe would begin to make starcarft broodwar what it should have been. Balanced.
I have further unquestionable evidence that sc broodwar is not balanced for zerg, and it comes down to upgrade function/location. Terran upgrades 3 different types of army, air, mech, and infantry. So in this case, terran is the odd man out. But zerg and protoss are suppose the be the 2 similar styles of upgrading. For terran, you could have 6 upgrade buildings. 2 engineering bays, and 4 armories = 6 Protoss could have 3 forges and 2 cybernetics cores = 5 zerg, 3 evolution chambers and 2 spires = 5 Because of these figures, zerg's upgrading is suppose to be much similar to the protoss scheme. But it is not for a few key reasons. The protoss can start upgrading air units with the cybernetics core, and so the question must be asked, what zerg building is the equivalent to the cybernetics core? This is the building that is suppose to be capable of upgrading zerg air. The spire, is definitely not the equivalent to the protoss cybernetics core. So what could it be? It's the lair, obviously... and because zerg agression relies so heavily on air, it is in zerg's best interest to upgrade air.... but to be capable of upgrading that air, at least as soon as you are capable of making the building that lets you make air(Spire) But, are you going to make double spire? no. Yet, zerg's game depends so heavily on mobile strength. What about double lair? Well since zerg always has atleast 2 hatcheries, going double lair would actually be a realistic strategy. You would then upgrade air attack, and air defense, at two seperate lairs so that zerg would have, for once, decently good air at a reasonable time. Also, because the upgrading is suppose to be similar to protoss, it is speculative that the zerg carapace upgrade would upgrade all zerg units, and maybe even perhaps buildings, in the same way that protoss shields upgrade all of protoss' buildings and units. Those are two other obvious issues. Btw, i only said the carpace upgrade, uprading all zerg units and buildings was speculative... I atleast think the carapace upgrading should apply to their defense, however, if this can't be done, correcting the first issue would still make a lot of sense, I've been moved to make my last point about the imbalance of zerg. We all know that zerg plays agression, just as all the races do... How does zerg play agressively? with muta obviously. But zerg also has to expand... This means that zerg covers a lot of area, but at the same time, is trying to attack the opponents base with muta. The question becomes... "How was it even possible that zerg would be capable of protecting so much area while simultaneously being aggressive?" Have you ever noticed how the research for lurker, and the spire cost exactly the same amount of money? 200 minerals and 200 gas. The prices are shared.... this is interesting considering that the philosophy of zerg is a shared production between warriors and economy... But guess what, not only are the prices exactly the same, the lurker research and the time to build a spire are..... exactly the same... Conspiracy? It begs the question, "was the production of muta/lurker supposed to have been shared between a single 200/200 research/building?" After spire, I am 99% sure that not only would muta become available for production, but also the mutation of hydras in to lurker. It makes absolutely perfect sense. While zerg would be playing agressive with muta, they would also be capable of protecting their wide coverage of 3 bases on the map with about two lurkers per base. It makes perfect sense... think about a zvp game... the protoss goes 2 base fast zealot. The zerg is agressing with muta and the toss player has forge already obviously.... the zealots, once they get zealot speed run out and kill your 3rd base, while the zerg player, who originally intended on going for muta agression, must use his muta to try and defend. But the muta can't even kill off barely any zealot before the hatchery is already taken down... the protoss has expanded at this point has made two archons and expanded in the meantime... There you go. My post is getting down towards the bottom and I have a brilliant idea that will tie in to the previous reply. I don't think you will be pissed though if you read the following, because I do think it is just... that good. On the most basic level of uniqueness for each race, we might do a quick sum up of each race as follows. Terran - Most buildings can lift off and land. Protoss - Pylons have a warping field radius for their buildings in which case the pylon powers those buildings and if destroyed, all buildings lose power and function. Zerg - Overlord can be viewed as a building in the air. My theory is that the unique functions of the protoss and the terran when put together, were suppose to be a familiar motif that would be apparent in the design of zerg. So terran are not only capable of lifting off buildings, but they are capable of landing buildings as well. Because terran can perform both actions, it made me feel as if zerg was lacking some how. I thought, shouldn't the overlord be capable of lifting off and landing? But then, it was apparent that this would be too powerful, that there was just not enough consequence. Then it hit me.... What if the overlord had the ability to land on the ground, but if it did land, it would be permanently bound to that location on the ground immobile? Actually, it would be kind of cool if it could move at the same speed on the ground since zerg defense is capable of moving in sc2. But I'll just go with the idea that if it did land, it would be immobile and now bound to the ground not being able to lift back off again. A lord that is scouting near the opponents base that is forced to land, would then be easily gobbled up later buy ground units. Money in the bank. So, it would still be more similar to how terran can lift off and land. But now the other side of the coin. Wouldn't it be logical that if the lord did land, it would then start to produce creep around it, just like a hatchery? I mean the overlord is a building after all.... But then you might say... oh this would be imbalanced because then zerg could block the opponent in too effectively with defense structures. But lets say that the overlord is like the pylon in how it gives life to the structures that are on the creep around it, so that if the overlord was killed, the defense structures would lose their function. Perhaps they would slowly rot and if a life source was not provided for it in a soon enough period of time, it would waste away incapable of being revived. So that is how the overall function to this idea would be similar to the functions of protoss and terran, but totally different. When you think about it though, it makes perfect sense. Hatcheries and overlords would be the source of life to their defense structures and perhaps buildings.... So if a sunken colon for example, is not connected by creep to an overlord or a hatchery, it loses its function. You see, it's almost as if blizzard designed the game as if the zerg would be capable of landing the overlord in the first place. That is why I believe that the 200-200 lurker research and the 200-200 spire construction are separated. They cost the same and build/research at the same time, but they are separate, because it is assumed that the overlord would be capable of landing. Let me explain... Lets say that the overlord was not capable of landing, which it is not. This supports my point that the spire and the lurker research should be killed, 2 birds with 1 stone, so that both muta/scourge and lurkers could be made at the same time. If the game isn't going to be changed so that the overlord can land... then this is how it should be... one or the other. Think about it... when a zerg player contains a protoss player with lurker, the protoss player is now going to go for observer. The observer is invisible so this means that in order to keep the protoss player contained, the zerg player is going to need an overlord out in front of the toss' base if he wants to further contain. This overlord is not capable of landing, so it is a vulnerable target to protoss air. So the protoss player can pick off the overlord. However, if the spire and the lurker research were in One 200/200 cost, then the zerg player would be using scourge/lurker quick. The funny thing is though that the counter to scourge just so happens to be the unit that protoss gets anyways, the corsair. In order for zerg to do an effective contain... it has to be able to protect the overlord so that it can see the observer and kill it with scourge.... BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CORSAIR IS FOR. Once the corsairs kill of the scourge it then gets the overlord kill, rendering the lurkers vulnerable to dragoon. Because zerg is splitting gas between lurker and muta/scourge it's still really difficult for zerg to pull off... splitting up the gas between warriors like that makes it weaker, and that's what makes it balanced. However, if the overlord was capable of landing, then perhaps the game wouldn't be changed at all.... You would land the overlord in front in order to perform an effective contain... the lord would still be able to see the observer from the ground and now a decent contain could be performed, the overlord would be a targed on the ground to scouts. anyways, that sums it up for now. Perhaps overlord landing, however, would need to be a research with a cost... not sure.
I have what should be some final thoughts to hopefully wrap up this thread... I came and noticed someone gave it 5 stars, appreciate it... The first post on this thread revolved around the ramp, and how zerg would use the ramp in order for them to be played in the way that they should play according to the opponents build. But now you might ask the question, what if it is a map like Tau Cross where there are no ramps, so how is it balanced then? What is zerg going to do? Well I think the entrance to each base should be the width of about two supply depots, or at least a barrack and a depot. Because overlords would be capable of landing, you could actually land two overlords in the area to block the entrance. I'm trying to think of what combination of buildings would be the same width as the depot and the barracks. Perhaps an overlord and an evolution chamber, or an overlord and a few creep colonies. Then I wondered how zerg was going to break out of their base.... would they have to kill their overlord to break out? But then I thought about burrow. I mean, if an ultralisk can burrow, then perhaps the overlord should be able to so that the zerg player can get out of his base. The supply depot can do it... But then, it just sounded too much like terran.... This brings me back to my opinion that the overlord would be able to move at the same speed on the ground as it does on air. This way, the zerg player could move the overlord out of the way in order to get out of the base.... Which gives it a unique feel, as opposed to going underground like the supply depot does in sc2. It would definitely be interesting for later, when the zerg gets hive tech and is capable of making a nydus canal. Could you imagine landing an overlord in the opponents base somewhere, creep oozing out, then then throwing up the exit building for the nydus canal? Where does this sound familiar hmm... The arbitor is an air unit that mass teleports entire armies in to people's bases. But it would have been sweet if the overlord would have been capable of landing like it should have been. Theoretically it would be about as equally hard to stop this tactic as it is to stop an arbitor. You might see the zerg player trying to land overlords at two different locations simultaneously in order to get a nydus canal exit off. Catching this move would be easier though, considering all one would have to do is kill the exit before it was complete. Once the zerg got lord speed as well, and the lord is sliding along the ground dragging a pool of living creep along with it, one might be able to throw up a nydus canal pretty close to the opponents base somewhere, which would be pretty awsome. anyways, that's all I got. May post went off the front page, and I don't think anyone is going to revive it so... making sure i don't lose it. Been thinking about some possible balance considerations that would actually make overlord landing more possible.... I think the vision would logically be limited by the creep itself that is slowly growing in all directions around it, and because it's vision would now be based on the creep, it wouldn't be able to see from high to low ground if landed on a ledge. Also, when considering the ability of protoss and terran to get a ground detector positioned somewhere on the map, it takes time. The protoss need a pylon and a cannon... but the terran can actually quickly build a turret(Detector) anywhere on the map quite fast.... Zerg being able to have a mobile ground detector so fast in comparison to the turret and the photon cannon might not make sense... I think that there should actually be a mutation period going from air, to the ground... perhaps a build time about the same as a turret, or perhaps it would be about the same as a pylon, since a cannon builds in about the same time as a creep and then sunk... I have some points that I would like to correct which I previously stated. Apparently the spire costs 200 -150, I don't remember the patch where that occured. Point still remains however. In comparison, it is mind boggling that for terran to upgrade air it costs 200-200 for toss 400 and for zerg 400- 300 The dent that is put in zerg's economy from even trying double dual air upgrades is pretty out rageous. A double lair, however, would equal 300-200 So 200-200 400 and 300-200 Sounds more balanced in my opinion. But perhaps those details aren't so significant. I want to analyze vision, or detection balance. Terran can throw up turrets anywhere pretty quickly, terran have scan, vessel, spider mine. With so many forms of detections comes more ability to play aggressive... Zerg and toss only have the overlord and the observer. When it comes to being agressive, a lot depends on detection and protecting that detection. Interestingly enough, when protoss use their observers to be agressive, they are very capable of protecting that observer with storm. Even if the toss goes mostly ground. This allows the protoss player to be more agressive. When a zerg player is forced to protect their overlords in order to be agressive, that is, protect their overlords with offense. It really takes too much out of the zerg. I really do think that the overlord was suppose to be capable of landing because of this.... Think about this... Terran and protoss shouldn't be able to conduct a b.o. that would be labeled an "Overlord Rush" Instead, they should get they types out warrior units that are going to counter other warrior units, not just to kill overlords. That's like zerg going some unit that was the counter to pylon or depeot. It shouldn't exist... if a protoss gets corsair, it should be to counter muta... This is why the overlord should be able to land as how I explained it... Overlord herass wouldn't be out of the quetion.... But it wouldn't render the overlord an additional weakness target to diminish zerg's economy so easily.
@Atlas I think you should consolidate all of your ideas together, by writing down your revised tech trees, unit abilities and their stats, upgrades and dependencies. Your ideas could very well be useful as a blueprint for a new game. One that is perfectly thematically balanced.
No. It's a joking exaggeration. I'm just standard Rank 1 Diamond. This topic is still funny though. So many bad ideas that could only come from someone who isn't quite as knowledgeable as they think.
Think about the concept of the ability of overlords to carry warrior units then. Once the ability to transport units via overlord is complete, you suddenly have so many overlords that can carry units. There is a lot of empty space in these overlords that do not get used. If one were to actually use that space, it would require mass warriors, hydras and lings. However, the comparison between how much the negative impact of making mass hydra/ling to the more specialized units that require as much gas, if not more, to their mineral cost, is pretty funny. Doing a mass drop is pretty much out of the question, because of the impact it has on economy, the easy risk it has for failure, and, because those units would be better used to protect bases. The zerg player should have the option to sacrifice their ability to drop for more effective use. How would they sacrifice that ability? if the overlord landed, it would no longer be able to drop for the rest of the game..... Further more, the ability to land the overlord makes more sense as being more comparable to the functions of the protoss and terran, yet having a clear and overall contrast. Oh Deckard Lee.... :facepalm: Btw Deckard Lee, come over to east and chill out, I want to learn from the zerg master... Interesting to note how I said that zerg should have the ability to "sacrifice" their overlord dropping by landing it. Sacrifice is actually one of the theme concepts of zerg.
in fact, with the overlord landed, why can't troops still go inside it? and use it like a bunker huh?
That is actually kind of a fun idea... I mean, you see that scvs can run and hide in the command center in sc2. I don't see why drones couldn't just run and hide in a landed overlord. A terran player might get vultures around your defense some how, or he might do a vulture drop. Lets say that you burrowed your drones, but that he has scan... It would be kind of cool to have a landed overlord near by that you could run in to simply for the purpose of protecting those drones with the overlord meat. It's interesting because no where else in the game do we see this familiar concept of units going in to a structure. Imagine drones running and hiding in overlords against storm? It's better then burrow because storm still kills burrowed units. It doesn't make sense though because you could just put them in to the overlord when it is already in the air... Perhaps a landed overlord would posses more of a building like quality since it would be producing creep, and be storm resistant? Eh, it's still an interesting consideration though. Hopefully I can end this thread on some very powerful points. I've been wondering that if the overlord would function similar to a pylon as it gives power to the buildings around it, that instead of the overlord dying and the defensive structures losing their function that were within the creep radius around the overlord, that the sunken colonies or spore colonies would just bleed out rather then not being able to attack at all. This would in turn give it a sort of Terran function element. As you can see, in order to create a unique function with the zerg, I am doing so by going back and forth between protoss and terran functions in order to achieve that totally unique, yet familiar to the other races experience. So if the overlord was killed, the sunken colony would slowly bleed out, perhaps as fast as it replenished life. Not sure.... But I do think it would be pretty interesting if the sunkens recovered life a little bit faster when with in the overlord radius, but for a mineral cost. It would be similar to the terran repair concept but different. Wouldn't be able to stack overlords for healing or anything like that. But the sunken colony would eventually bleed out with out a landed overlord nearby to recieve nourishment from. This is similar to the concept of how a terran building, once it's life reaches a certain point starts to burn and if not repaired is eventually destroyed. Finally, I found this thread on the Team Liquid forum... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141543 People are just not sure how to stop MeCH, I will share my opinion on what I believe the absolute counter to MeCH is in relationship to what the common opinion of how to counter MeCH is. In my personal opinion, the way to counter terran mech is mass upgraded hydras with burrow, perhaps with a spire on the side for killing science vessel. Or, mass upgraded cracklings with burrow, defiler with plague and dark swarm... (In which case you put darkswarm over a group of zerglings THAT ARE BURROWED, and then unburrow them when mech is over top as a good surprise. But perhaps spire as well to, again, kill vessel with scourge. Killing the vessel with scourge is key because it keeps the terran forced to use scans in which case your burrow can remaine valuable for surprise attacks, which in my opinion is really the only way to beat MeCH. But what everyone else will tell you is that the key to beating MeCH is Muta/Zergling or Muta/Hydra. I would agree with Muta/Zergling because Mutalisks and zerglings are both SMALL units, yes the mutalisk is a small unit, any knowledgable starcraft player knows this. Because the mutalisk is small, the type of damage that the goliath does to air is explosive which means 50% less damage to mutalisks, and I do believe zerglings too. But I really think that at the heart of why the mutalisk fails to properly fight goliath as they should have been able to, comes down to the upgrading design scheme for zerg. Like I said previously, it costs 200-150 for a spire (Used to be 200-200) 100-100 for an armory and 200 for a cybernetics core. Now check out the facinating comparison of Drop costs to the information above. It costs 200-200 to research overlord carrying capacity. It costs 100-100 for a dropship It costs 200 for a shuttle.... EXACTLY or atleast recently was EXACTLY the same cost. Keep this in mind. I believe that if researching Zerg air upgrades was done at the Lair, then zerg would be able to combat terran mech as it was more intended to be combated. The zerg player would dual lair for quick double upgrades (armor and attack) in order to fight against goliath... This would clearly slow the zerg down on hive, but it would still be worth it. You see, the upgrades are key for the muta in this battle because of how the damage type of explosive damage functions. Now going back to the comparison of the buildings which upgrade (their cost) in comparision to the shuttle, dropship, and overlord carrying capacity costs. Just as I pointed out that the building for upgrading zerg air clearly costs to much 200-150 (which was 200-200) So is the cost for the overlord to be able to carry units. It's assumed that because all of a sudden through a single research that all overlords have the ability to drop, that this research so cost a lot (200-200). This is wrong. The only effective zerg drops are the ones that are much like the terran or the toss, 1-2 overlords, 1-2 shuttles, or 1-2 dropships utilizing more specialized units, lurkers, reavers, templars, marine/medic.... And because you drop more specialized units you drop much less, to take less risk. Zerg isn't going to use many overlords to conduct large drops.... It's like I'm saying time and time again... it's too costly to their economy to not use those units to protect their other bases... It's not like the hatchery has a gun on top of it so that home is protected (command center in sc2) so that zerg can take so many units away from protecting their bases.... and further more, more units means more larvae used up, which means less drones to mine minerals. As a last comment, I highly doubt that Deckard Lee even understood half of the above information... because his game is based on playing noobs in order to boost his rank.....
Zerg is fine the way it is... Yes, the Zerg don't have some of the same perks that Terran or Protoss get, but they're not underpowered by any means. The upgrades don't cost the same, likely because the units themselves aren't the same as one another. Fighting a 2 Gate build can be a $#&@*, especially in the 12-3 position, but it is possible if you correctly micro and time your lings/drones/sunkens... Use scourge to take out corsairs before they get too big in numbers if you have a problem protecting your overlord from them... Protect your lurkers with speedlings/hydras - not just overlord/scourge. Since scourge/lurkers are gas intense, you should have more than enough minerals to get them... If you have the attention, you can simply dodge storms without having to load them into your overlords - and if vultures are attacking, your overlords (and drones if you load them in) are better off in the air than the ground, where the vultures can't attack them. Some of the ideas would are interesting, but you'd have to rebalance the game to make them work.
I don't think you would have to rebalance the entire game to make them work... These are balance changes that I argue have been needed. Loading drones in to overlords was not my idea. I only argued for the point of Thematic or Motif driven balance. To balance starcraft slightly better on the most basic level of function, which would in turn help to balance it on the more global level. They say that the game is balanced on the local level, but not so on the global level, but this is the beauty of the game. I made my great points and arguments about the cost of researching overlord speed and drops in comparison to the dropship and the shuttle. 150-150 for overlord speed and 200-200 for carrying capacity. 100-100 for a dropship when the starport is part of the tech tree. And only 200 for a shuttle that when has the speed upgrade blows both the overlord and dropship out of the water. If the game actually followed on the pattern of two similar one different, then overlords would simply be as fast as a dropship from the start. Perhaps in order to balance out that ability, terran would be able to move their buildings just as fast, but that is something that as a Zerg player and understanding the pros and cons, I would gladly take that consequence. Either make the overlord as fast as the dropship from the start with NO additional speed upgrade, because overlords being as fast as a speed shuttle would just be insane. Then if zerg wanted to drop they would research drops for 200-200 which is still costing them way more then shuttle or drop ship....DUH! But hell, i'm just saying let the overlord land, which would be half of the function of what terran can do, and let the overlord emit creep when landed and act as a reference for building function similar to what the photon cannon can do, and these issue are easily and simply cleared up. There would be no need to change anything else in the game at all... except for air upgrade issues against mech.
