[2v2] Switching from Harassment to Killing Blow?

Hi,
I'm currently low within the bronze league in my 2v2 match-ups. My team's main problem is: we play Toss and Terrans, start by securing our main base, then getting some expansions and creating a small forward base (toward the enemy, mostly to have some good fallback ground).

Then I usually start harassment (drops, banshees, nukes), the enemy starts coming at us (outside of their base) and we counter their units most of the times (as we do scout).

But mostly it ends by the enemy players massing one unit and then overrunning us.. this is aided as we sometimes find out that we've built the wrong units to counter.

The obvious answer is, that we shouldn't let enemies get that far.. but how? Their bases are mostly very good defended (well, they're turtling up) and trying to break the defenses looks like a massive loose-situation for my team.. but if we wait, we get reactive and are overrun somehow (last time by mass carriers.. those things seriously suck).

On smaller 1vs1 maps I do not have this problem as I start rather aggressive by using my marines and marauders, but this doesn't seem to work as well as there are more defensive units on most 2v2 maps (as there's another player nearby).

So, how do I best advance my play?

cheers, nimrod

 

Without seeing a game it would be hard to tell you what is going wrong, but the most likely culprit is you're sacrificing too much of your macro (unit production, etc) for your micro (harrassment).

Harrassment is great, but decent harrassment will still get its *** kicked if the other player manages to fend it off while outperforming you on macromanagement (and then crushing you with numbers). This is a really common problem for players trying to improve and work in harrassment strategies into their game.

Alternatively, maybe your harrassment isn't doing as well as you think. I.e. the opponent is fending it off easily with minimal losses, and/or you are spending more/losing more than you are gaining with the harrassment.

Note that this problem occurs in the reverse too - not managing your micro (harrasment/small battles/etc) well enough because you're trying to keep up base macromanagement during those encounters.

If this is the problem then you need to keep practicing, try to identify things you can do to make it easier to simultaneously micro/macro (hotkeying production buildings and using game hotkeys so you can keep building units without looking away from the battle, use of rally points, et cetera).

Pay attention to your resource consumption too. Are you building up far too much during battles? How can you fix that? Did you expand way too late because you were controlling your harrassment units? etc etc.

 

IMO, play more 1v1, your 2v2 skills will follow. Make the harassment earlier and more persistent, and keep the heat on enough to make them afraid to expand. when you're both at 130ish food storm the weaker player's base. gg

 

Based on what I'm hearing, you guys have strong early-game to mid-game and weak late-game.

If your enemy is stuck to one base (you're sure they didn't secretly expand somewhere) and yet makes a bigger army than you, then their macro-game is probably better. Check the replays and see how many barracks/starports/whatever they made vs what you made. If they have 5 barracks and you have 2, then you may need to step up your infrastructure.

Keep an eye in replays on their upgrades too, as that's another thing they can do while turtling.


And finally, expand expand expand. If they're boxed in, they can make more gatherers, but they'll run out of minerals. You can make more gatherers AND keep getting more bases.

Keep in mind late-game finishing someone off is your weakness. If you can't get a finishing blow earlier in the game, then practice your macro skills.


/salute

 

Thanks for all the replies..

So getting a better grip on macro seems to be the way forward. Sounds promising, esp. as I noticed during replays that I've stocked up on resources without using them :-/

 

I think the problem is that you are getting surprised by one unit type that is being massed. If they are making nothing but that unit, you should have plenty of time to scout with orbital scans to see him getting those units, and then you can counter it accordingly.

 

what seems to work quite well (on bronze, mind you ) is to build a very fast forward bunker.

Building a proxy factory and barracks while trying to hold'n'repair the bunker and then.. siege tanks, already broken high-ground.. lots of fun. At least I've climbed 50steps up the ladder..

 

Early game is def not your problem (I mean it shouldn't be anyones problem cause if you lose enough you will learn early game very well), its mostly Macro like these guys say but also feeding your units to your opponent and letting him gain a unit advantage is not good, try to have better Micro because if you see you are going to get *** handed to you in a little battle draw your units back, especially as a Terran VS Protoss you should be able to micro out his Zealots if he isn't careful. Just don't lose all your units if you know you are going to lose the battle pull them out and save them for later, or as a protection from a counter send. I usually take those units and throw them on an Expo and expand, or throw them at my already under construction expo.

Just make sure to keep your casualties to a minimum cause it will help in the long run and allow you to focus on putting out a few high tech units in the mix, instead of having to make them all over again.

Cheers